Long Way Gone Discussion #2: War

[Mrs. W]

"In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners." -- Albert Camus (1913-1960)

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)

These statements contradict each other. Discuss who is right; who is wrong? Is war inevitable for the human race, or will there ever be a day with no wars?

[ColemanM]

Even though it sounds evil I believe that war is something that will always be around so long as the evil in the hearts of man refuses to dwindle away. Peace can't exist without war as the planet could not live without the sun. Even though it brings pain and misery to those it touches it is caused and finish by us time after time. It is the hearts of men, their greed, their lust, and urge to have more money and power then those around them. Acting like animals we like to show signs of superiority to others, showing who is smarter, faster, or stronger than the rest. I believe that if there is humans or any creature for that matter there is war.

[Michael L.]

In simple terms, the first quote by Albert Camus (1913-1960) is saying that smart people dont turn to war. They think that war is bad and that if you are smart you will not turn to it for the answer. The executioner I think would be the people that are starting the war, like Hitler and the Nazi during WW2. And the victims would be the people who suffer due to the killings. Such as the civilians in a long way gone. In the last quote the simple terms of this would be saying that only stupid people revert to violence. The only reason why they do this would be because they dont know any other options to get around the conflict that they may be faced with. So they turned to violence to resolve their problems. And in the second quote I think that the very first line is the perfect way to summarize the entire quote. When he states that war is ugly, but not the ugliest thing, that it isn't that terrible which is of course not true. He is basically trying to say that war is ok and that if you have a good reason to fight and then you should do it. All of these quotes are not similiar in anyway, except for the fact that they all involve war. Its unfortunate there is such thing as war, because if there wasn't then this world would be a much better place...

Michael L.
Period 3

[Mrs. W]

Just a reminder... if you choose not to discuss the actual statements, as directed, then you will not be receiving full credit for your response.

[Victoria G.]

I believe Albert Camus is right with his quote. He is saying it is the job of the thinking people, us, to not be on the side of violence. I think this is true. However, even though I agree with this quote, I am not sure it is possible for every one of us to not get into it. Its in our instinct to fight. We can't help it. At least not all of it. If we could learn to hear each other out without planning on how to attack the other person in our heads while they explain, then we might actually have a chance at maintaining SOME peace, not complete though. As much as I and many others would like to believe it is possible to avoid war, I do not think it is possible. As I said, its in our instinct to fight. I am honestly not sure about whether or not there will be a day without war, with out fighting. I would love to say I believe there will be but I would probably be wrong. As we go foward in time things get more and more heated between countries over who has the most power. Power is a strong quality that, unfortunately, many people want. The day people learn to negotiate peacefully and not go behind each others backs and plan attacking will be the day war may end.

[Micah K.]

I think the first quote is almost right,but with some changes, I agree with the second quote, and I think the third quote is wrong. The first quote is right in saying that we should not be the killers, but we also should not be the victims. We should be somewhere in between, not the killers, but not the victims either. War is inevitable for the human race. There have always been wars, so there always will be. Do you think that in the future, there will be no wars, just because we have better technology, or better this or that. No, we will always have wars. You would be hard pressed to find any subject that not even one person disagrees upon. There will always be someone, somewhere, that will disagree with your thoughts. I am not talking about proven facts like "The grass is green." I am talking about things like:Is electricity good for the economy?, should healthcare be free?, and other questions such as that, even if the answer is pointless. There will always be a minority in all aspects of life. You may be part of the minority on some subjects, while against them on others. These things will lead to conflict, which in turn, will lead to war. There will never be a time in which there are no wars.

Period 3

[Kristen S]

I believe that Albert Camus is correct in saying that “In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners." Here he is simply stating that we as the people should not be for war. Unfortunately, in our society, past societies, and future societies war will always be around. People can not talk out their problems and instead have to show them with power of strength and strategy. I can not see war every disappearing, although I feel it should, and I think that it was Albert Camus is trying to tell the people with a brain and a voice so that they get out there and speak up for what is right and not give in and be on the side of the executioners. On the other hand, I do not agree with Isaac Asimov when he says that "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Here Isaac Asimov is saying that the unskilled turn to violence when they aren’t doing well. I do not think that just because someone is intelligent or unsuccessful in life that they will turn to violence and war, it takes many different types of people that turn to both violence and war, not just the unskilled. As for the middle quote by John Stuart Mill, I am a bit unsure as of what he is trying to say, but I think its something about a man who has nothing to fight for is uglier than war, for what would be the point of fighting, and if that is so, then I agree with him.

Period 5

[Alexandra :)]

I believe that none of these statements are right, but also none of them are wrong either. I think that when the topic of war comes up a lot of it are oponions many of times. If I had to agree with any of these quotes based on my beliefs of war I would most likely agree with the quote by Camus. I agree with this quote because I believe that the people have a big say in war and we should do something about it instead of just being another person killing people. We should not be taking the side of the people who support war and are killing mass amounts of people. When we start killing people it just makes everything worse. I strongly believe that voilence is never the answer. Voilence does not really show the others what you accutally want and what you are feeling. As much as I would love to see a day when there would be no more wars or physical voicence I do not know if that will ever happen. Wars have been happening throughout history and they have repeated many times. If we are not going to stop them now, then when will they stop? They are certinallay not going to just stop on their own.
Alexandra Z
Per.5

[Meg S]

In the first quote by Albert Camus, it seems as if he is saying that people who resort to violence are not thinking. When, in fact, this is completely false. A great amount of thought and preparation goes into the decision to declare war. Most respected leaders would not jump into a war without thinking it through. Of course, he is correct in saying it is our job to steer away from the executioners. However, before choosing sides based on their ideas of violence, we must first take into account their reasoning beyond what it may appear to be on the surface.
As for the second quote, I do not/will never have confidence in the fact that violence will ever be the answer. War is not a trivial ordeal that should be taken lightly. Millions lose their lives in wars and I'm almost positive if you spoke to any family that has lost a loved one to war, they would never refer to the war as inconsequential. I am also inclined to say that war is one of the ugliest necessary evils that our world has been accustomed to.
Finally, the third quote, which I agree with the least. Violence is often times not the last resort for many. Obviously, most leaders are hasty to jump straight into war. But in many circumstances they have no other choice. Circumstances involving the other side taking violent action towards them, etc.
As humans we are naturally competitive which makes living in a world without war utterly impractical. We can only hope and keep working towards a world without violence.

[Griffin H]

I believe that Isaac Asimov’s quote in saying that war is “the last refuge of the incompetent” is true. The only time people fight is when they have tried everything else, and there is no other choice. This can be seen on a small scale, like when a child steals another’s lunch. The child who had his lunch stolen would ask for it back before he jumped on the kid and started punching him. It can also be seen on a large scale, when one country does something that another country dislikes, say missile tests, the country that is in disapproval of the actions of the other will start with things like negotiations, and economic sanctions before they go to war. John Stuart Mill said that war is ugly but what is uglier than war is when people have nothing to fight for. That simply is not true. People, although violent and selfish, can be peaceful. Just because someone does not want to fight, does not mean that that person is oppressed, or enslaved, it just means that that person is peaceful. I do not think that in this world we will ever see an end to war. All it takes is one person to beak peace that could have taken thousands of years to create or lasted thousands of years, and it is in human nature to think of yourself and get what you think is best for yourself.
Griffin H
Period 1

[Tylour M.]

War is inevitable, there will never be a world without conflict. People quarrel and that is a well known fact. Everyone has differences and when two cultures collide conflicts arise. I believe that Albert Camus is not correct, in a world where war is abundant the thinking people in a society will not want to be the victims in any case at all. Instead those who are thinking will find a way to make money or resources from those who are commintting the executions. I also do not agree with John Stuart Mill's statement about war, I do not believe that the ugliest thing is the "The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war..." These are simply the victims of the war not. We should not shun them from our lives and run from them becuase they pose a threat to our apparentally pretty lives, but try to help them to remove the great burden of war from their shoulders. Isaac Asimov has the best explanation of how war or violence works and is the only statment that I find true. Albert Camus said that it is the duty of the intelligent to not become one of the executioners, but Isaac Asimov states that the incompetent are those who find violience their last refugee, this means that war and conflict for resources only occur because people do not manage themselves properly. If everyone were to properly function in a society then everything would run smoothly. In A Long Way Gone the Army and RUF pick children for soldiers because they are the easiest to brainwash and recruit for their "cause".

[Tylour M.]

I believe that you may have misunderstood Isaac Asimov, from his quote I got the impression that those who do not have resources and desire more will eventually turn to war in order to get what they want. By saying that "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" Isaac Asimov is saying that those with nothing find thier place best in a setting in which chaos or war is rageing.
Kristen S said:

I do not agree with Isaac Asimov when he says that "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Here Isaac Asimov is saying that the unskilled turn to violence when they aren’t doing well. I do not think that just because someone is intelligent or unsuccessful in life that they will turn to violence and war, it takes many different types of people that turn to both violence and war, not just the unskilled.

Period 5

[Nicholas G]

War will always be around it has been even when the world was young. Without war there wouldn't be any resolved conflicts and there wouldn't be Peace. I have to agree with ColemanM peace can't exist without war as the planet couldn't live without the sun. War has always been in the world and there are wars being fought every day that end up bringing peace or destruction to a nation. Man can't live without war, or having conflicts because of their lust of power and always having to be right. Without war the world cannot function correctly due to the amount of wars there have been and the conflicts that have been resovled. War is the only way man can compete with each with no rules, even though there are "rules" of war they aren't really present in any war, War is war, no rules no boundaries. It cannot be avioded. There will never be a day on earth that there is no war, it will never disappear, it is like that one bug bite on you that you can't seem to get rid of and always comes back in the same exact spot.

Nick G.
Period 5